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Ultimate Marketer Podcast #48: (Founders Series) Eric Bandholz of Beardbrand

Ultimate Marketer Podcast #48: (Founders Series) Eric Bandholz of Beardbrand

Our Founders Series features the stories of entrepreneurs and the businesses they created. We will learn how their ideas went from concept to launch and all of the wins and losses along the way.

Our Founders Series features the stories of entrepreneurs and the businesses they created. We will learn how their ideas went from concept to launch and all of the wins and losses along the way.

Beardbrand Founder Eric Bandholz

In this episode, we talk with Eric Bandholz. Eric is the founder of Beardbrand, a men's grooming product company with a YouTube following of over 1.5 million.

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Orlando Rios (00:19): How's it going, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Ultimate Marketer podcast. Before we get started today, I want to remind you to visit and use promo code ULTIMATE to save 10%.

We have Facebook ad copy, Google ad copy, and now LinkedIn as well. So go ahead and check that out. We've also launched our Pro Plan where you pay one fee per month and you get to request the ad copy and images. Well, just the ad copy that you need for Facebook, for Google, landing pages, whatever you need. So check that out, go to Use promo code ultimate and save 10%.

Orlando Rios (01:06): Today, we're going to continue our founder's series, where we learn about businesses and how they were built. Our guest today is Eric Bandholz. He is the founder of Beardbrand, a successful men's grooming line who actually kind of started off with a YouTube channel.

But now that YouTube channel has over a million subscribers. Eric, welcome to the show.

Eric Bandholz (01:28): What's going on, Orlando!

Orlando Rios: Nothing much, man. Hold up. Just like everybody else. Oh yeah, man. I hear we're holed up together in Austin apparently. Yeah, apparently you're just, you're just down the interstate. Uh, living two completely different lives. I'm almost in a Pflugerville, which is a way different life than living down in the Mueller area.

Eric Bandholz: Oh man. How's everything going? Orlando Rios: Well, yeah, everything's going well here for, for us and uh, just, just doing what we do, but I've come across Beardbrand several times, uh, on YouTube and, and as I, as I have my own beard, although it's not the best looking beard, I've always seen a bunch of grooming stuff. So I've seen beard brand come across. I've seen other brands come across but coming across your, your story was, was kind kinda cool.

Orlando Rios (02:18): And I thought it would be awesome to feature that on the podcast today, just because we have a lot of entrepreneurs and the journey isn't always perfect. As everybody knows, everybody's business kind of takes a different trajectory. So I want to start with you in Beardbrand and your story kind of goes back all the way back to 2012, which seems like forever ago. Take us back to 2012 when Beardbrand first became a thought.

Eric Banholz: Yeah. I mean, actually to, to go to the sort of your brand, you actually have to go further than the start of it. So I used to be a financial advisor at a mega bank, you know, we're in a suit and tie and the sidebar share of my face. And I was just of felt like

Eric Bandholz (03:00): I was not displaying to the world... Uh, the person who I was on the inside from a style perspective. Now I, uh, I didn't like working there. I ended up quitting working there and I try to start up my own marketing company, uh, back then and, uh, ended up just kind of being like a web designer or graphic designer. And in the process, I grew my beard, well be going to these networking events. And,  back in 2011, duck dynasty was huge.

Everyone would call me duck dynasty. They'd call me ZZ top. They'd call me grizzly Adams. And these are all like totally gnarly dudes, but I'm like a former financial advisor. I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a designer. Like these are not the stereotypes that I really identified with. So I kind of like was a little annoyed with that. I went from, from one, one environment where it didn't feel like it fit into another.

Eric Bandholz (03:52): And I ended up attending this event in Portland where I started to meet other guys like me, other, other dads stay at home dads, priests. I remember me and a priest, designers, entrepreneurs, or even just some kind of quirky guys. And I realized there's this whole community of guys that didn't fit the traditional stereotype of, of the bearded guy. And it was at that point that I'm like, well, you know, screw this, I'm going to, I want to change the way society, views beards, man, I'm going to create this, this a company called beard brand as a way to unite this community and the members in the community, we're going to call them urban beards men. So, that was the idea that started in February of 2012. I got the idea. I bought the domain Beardbrand. It was available.

I created a YouTube channel. I had one of my buddies, he got a Tumblr website going, you know, no one's using Tumblr anymore, but, we did that. And it was just on that mission to really give this community, all the tools they needed to, to feel confident about growing their beard out, maintaining their beard and kind of being the person that they wanted to be.

Orlando Rios (04:58): That's awesome. So you mentioned something in there that always as an entrepreneur always feels really good is whenever you have an idea for a brand name and the domain's available, the Instagram's available, that's the best feeling in the world.

Eric Bandholz (05:14): Yeah. I mean, that's, that's always like my first check. Like if the domain is available, then there's a pretty good chance that the Instagram handle and the Twitter handle are available. So like I'm not, you know, I'm pretty cheap. I'd rather pay $11 for a domain than a $1,100. So that's the first thing I look for. And if Beardbrand wasn't available, it would probably have a different name right now.

Orlando Rios (05:39): Sure. So on the contrary, around that time, 2012, there's another company that's kind of the antithesis of what Beardbrand is and that's Dollar Shave Club. They kind of got big around that time too. So you have on one side, you know, that's pushing like you need to shave every day, you need to brand use brand new razors and then here comes the beard brand philosophy.

Eric Bandholz (06:04): Yeah. You know, what's funny about dollar shave club and they're, they're significantly larger than us. I'm sure we're not even a blip on their radar, but, they sponsored one of my videos early on where you had this beard tag essentially. So I had this little video where I was wearing a Dollar Shave Club tag in my beard. Uh, so they're, they're a pretty fun and unique brand and it's been fun to watch them, uh, explode on the scene.

Orlando Rios (06:31): Cool. Yeah. So one of the things that I read about you guys is, is before the product line came, there was a lot of content developed and you started out, you know, with YouTube channel and like you mentioned, Tumbler, you know, whenever you got started, well, I guess in your opinion, how integral was that, that forming a base of content, basically a content company to start.

Eric Bandholz (07:00): I would say, not at all, you know, that first year I was a totally, the code word is wantrepreneur. I was a wantrepreneur, it was a, one of my four businesses that I was trying to get up off the ground. I had a Tumbler and I had a blog and I was creating content for that. And I had a YouTube channel. Um, but I only had like 12 videos that first year I only had a couple of blogs or blog articles.

And then, you know, Tumblers are really easier to manage you just log in and, you know, click a couple of reblogs here and there. So it was totally this like side project kind of back of mind thing for the first year. I think the first year we had 279 subscribers on YouTube. So we had no, no real audience. And the growth of the audience really was kind of side by side with the growth of the company.

It did help to have like a little bit, I mean, to have a little bit of validation that some of the content was interesting, but it really wasn't anything to, to build a business off of.

Orlando Rios (08:06): Okay. And so when did, when did, when was it that you actually started developing the first men's grooming product or the first product that you could sell?

Eric Bandholz (08:17): Yeah, so Beardbrand is entirely bootstrapped. We have no debt, no outside investors, anything like that. I've got two business partners and we've put our time and we've put resources into the business, but in those early days, when you have no money and you have time, you try to do the things that allow you to get off the ground. So we actually started by reselling other grooming products in the early days.

So from January through May, we were selling, this brand and didn't launch our own product until May of 2013. And then there it's just been a gradual rolling out of products. And eventually, we discontinued carrying outside brands and just focused on our own products now. But for a period of time, it was, you know, exclusively another brand and then, you know, side by side and then eventually just ours.

Orlando Rios (09:11): Yeah. One of the biggest hurdles in any business, you know, anybody that seriously wants to grow a business and they get started is that problem of initial capital. What did you guys do? Did you guys just kind of put all of your money that you had saved together? Were you able to find any type of outside credit, to help you initially get started?

Eric Bandholz (09:33): Yeah, I'm extremely shrewd financially. So we're very lucky personally that my wife had a job that could support the family. We lived very modestly. Cars were paid off, a very inexpensive house and, you know, a lot of ramen and cold cuts. So I didn't take any money out of the business for the first 10 months of the business. And essentially what would be paying me was going into inventory, buying products, you know, buying packaging and stuff like that. So we were able to pretty much run, you know, a cashflow positive business from day one.

Now I had, because I had the YouTube channel and the tumbler page, and I was kind of the face of the company, my two business partners, they did put money into the business, but I wouldn't even say that money was necessarily needed for the growth of the company in those early days. But it was a good way to make sure that we were all, we felt like we were all appropriately bought into the business.

Orlando Rios (10:40): Okay. And tell us more about that initial team. Obviously, you have this idea, anytime you partner with somebody, things can get a little bit tricky because everybody has different ideas and sometimes those ideas don't align. So tell us a little bit about the initial, that initial team you, you helped assemble and their roles and how you work together.

Eric Bandholz (11:03): Yeah, there's, there's certainly a lot of drama and a lot more drama in the early days than the later days. We, in the very early days, 2012, I had a, my buddy that I talked about, John, who created the Tumbler, well, he created the Tumbler of the YouTube page and I created the blog, the brand, the idea. And, he kind of had a baby and his resources went towards his family and kind of his other projects. And he kind of just like faded away, I guess isn't the best way to say.

And that was okay because the business wasn't really making money. It was kind of like a side project and we weren't really doing anything with it. And then, I was pretty active in the startup community in Spokane. So I attended this thing called startup weekend, which is basically a weekend sprint to create a minimal product of a, of a business.

Eric Bandholz (11:56): And it was in that process that I convinced my networking buddies to come and join. So specifically Lindsey Reinders, Jeremy McGee, and, Joshua McKee. And, uh, we all worked on the same project and it was through working on this project that we realized we philosophically really enjoyed each other's work style and our company, uh, the direction that we're going for the company. And so it was the four of us who, after the startup weekend, we're like, Hey, let's start up a business.

It doesn't matter what it is. Let's just get the four of us doing something. So, we kinda agreed with that. We tried this one project that was an idea of, Joshua and he got cold feet on the idea because it was kind of competing with his primary business. Then I'm like, well, I got this beard brand thing. Why don't we, why don't we try to give that a go?

Eric Bandholz (12:46): And they're like, okay, cool. Sounds good. So we, we did that. And, again, like we were hustling and growing and I couldn't get beard brand off my mind. And, we were getting traction and it was a really riveting for me to finally have a business that was growing, you know, on its own that wasn't a lot of work to grow.

And it was something I was really personally passionate about. I love the product. I loved our customers, I love our mission and what we're doing. And, so we kept on doing that, but unfortunately like, Josh wasn't equally as passionate. And he was kind of like, like, like John in 2012, he just kinda like faded out. He wasn't really expressing that same kind of passion for the business. And, you know, we've talked with him and kinda came to an agreement that, yeah, it wasn't the right fit for him.

Eric Bandholz (13:40): And he was going to go focus on his business and I gave him back any money that he put into the business so that he was made whole, and he's still a really good friend of mine and he's a very successful entrepreneur and I miss him, I wish he could have been on this ride with us, but we ended up just the three of us, Lindsey, Jeremy and I.

So I kinda fell into the marketing role, the face of the company role. And then Lindsey kind of fell into the operational side of things. And then Jeremy kind of fell into like this boardroom and board member type of role. And that's worked really good because Lindsay and I are kind of in the day-to-day. And then if we have any kind of spats, so we're able to pull in Jeremy and he's kind of like this independent third party perspective and really help keep us, you know, keep Lindsey and me, and, and gets it good terms which fortunately we haven't had to call on him very frequently.

But in those early days, when it was really stressful with growing the business, we definitely had a lot more conflict between the two of us. And then at any point, obviously in the early days, lots of things are happening. Lots of changes happening, new ideas, good ideas, bad ideas, everything that goes on.

Orlando Rios (14:52): A lot of businesses fail when they fail really, really early on. Was there any moment for you in this particular brand where you thought, I don't think this is going to work and where you almost actually just stopped?

Eric Bandholz (15:09): No, I always had the full conviction that the business would be successful and it would grow in the early days. We first started off as maybe like a side project for me, where if anyone made any money, it would be me. And it was kind of my side project. And, you know, Lindsay and Jeremy were kind of like mentors and helping me along with it. And they had ownership in the company. And then as we got a little more traction, it became, Oh, you know, maybe this could be a full-time thing for me. Like this could be my primary business. And, again, like I'd get paid for it. And Jeremy and, and Lindsey would be there to be mentors. And then if we ever got to the point to do distributions, they would, they would do that. And then it kinda got to the point where Lindsey could work on it full time.

Eric Bandholz (15:55): So it was me and Lindsey and, and a couple other people who are doing on full time. And we're like, you know what, let's, let's, let's really make this a thing. Let's try to make it, let's see how far it can go. Let's see how big of a company we can make it. And that was a lot of fun to kind of make that transition from a, a side project or kind of a lifestyle business to, you know, really full-fledged, independent company. And I do remember we've made it a point to have quarterly strategy sessions for us, where we step away from the business, then focus on like the quarterly outlook where we've been and where we're going. And we always like to do them. We did two international ones to get perspective around the world. And then we do two domestic ones. 

Eric Bandholz (16:41): And I remember when we did our trip to Australia, it was all the way to Australia. It was like a 20-hour flight. And we were only in Australia for like six days or maybe it was like four days. I think it was like four days and then back into America. And then we did two cities. We did Melbourne or Melbourne and Sydney. And so it was like July, which is our down season. And we were like hemorrhaging cash. And I remember that bank account just got really, really small. And we're just like, we just felt like giant idiots being all the way in Australia spending all this money. When we going be back in America, working on the business, saving that money rather than paying for these plane tickets and hotels and stuff like that. So that was, you know, like a kind of a stressful event for us financially that we knew we would get through it, but, uh, we've kind of had some regrets on for sure.

Orlando Rios (17:40): Cool. So I know, I know that you initially didn't take any financial capital, but there was a point you actually went on Shark Tank. Now I have a couple of questions here in regards to that. Ultimately none of the sharks took the offer that you're proposing. Yeah. Right. Um, so, you know, number one, tell us about that process, what it's like to, to go on that show and number two at the end, I guess in hindsight, are you happy they didn't take the deal?

Eric Bandholz (18:12): So we were on the show, uh, 2014, which, uh, again, it seems like eons ago, six years ago. We initially think we initially applied for it in September of 2013 and were pretty much ghosted. And we were going to do, they used to have like open castings where you could like kind of pitch to the producers. You'd have to wait in line and we're going to do that. And we're like an ask her. And then, fortunately, they reached back out to us in March of 2014, around March. I know I may have the dates wrong, but sometime in the spring of 2014 and said, Hey, you know, we're interested in it. And that's where I worked on a pitch with producers and started giving, you know, like what we're going to do. And it kind of seemed like there's was more and more signed all the paperwork, the legal paperwork.

Eric Bandholz (19:01): And then we ended up flying out to LA and I think it was like June or July and recorded our episode. And then the episode was aired on Halloween of 2014 and a man that was a, it was a pretty intense thing because if you think about it going back 2014 for us, we were just, and that was really like our first summer and we're dealing with our summer dip. And we kind of didn't know where the business was going and we kind of wanted to make sure that we're spinning it in the right direction. And so we kind of broke it up into the court, um, uh, six-month chunks, to be able to show the growth of the company. And, and we had a pretty good, pretty good growth, for us and our numbers were pretty good. I felt pretty confident going in there, based on the research that we did with a previous business as well, that not a lot of businesses had the kind of growth that we had, organically, and they got deals and, certainly, worse businesses got deals than we got, but we went up there and we pitched, we were like the second to last to pitch.

Eric Bandholz (20:06): Uh, so for those who aren't familiar with the show though, they'll bulk record them. So in one day, they'll have like 11 different pitches. 12 different pitches. So the sharks are just in there all, all day long. I can see how exhausting that can be for them. Oh yeah. So you're at the end, you're kind of screwed. So I feel like, you know, the ego in me is telling me I didn't get an offer a deal because they were just ready to go home. I wondered if I, if I got in there earlier in the day that we might've been able to get a deal or get a pitch, but with that being said, like, we were excited to do a deal, or we're just excited to be able to tell our story to millions of people, no matter what happened, there was going to be a win, win situation for us because we were cashflow positive. We had a good business, we had good numbers, we were healthy, we didn't need the money. Um, but we certainly would have grown quicker with, uh, access to more capital and not only the capital with relationships that a shark would bring.

Orlando Rios (21:07): Okay, cool. So obviously, without even getting the deal of any sort, there is still some benefit that you're getting from the show because people see your brand on television.

Eric Bandholz (21:20): I mean, yes and no. Uh, I don't know if people are still trying to get on Shark Tank or not, but they'll film, you know, like, let's say they film a hundred of them, but they only air 80 of them. So you've got a 20% chance to go through all this, to put all these resources in, to be distracted from your, your business and then ended up never getting on the show. So that's happened to actually to one of my buddies, uh, and just think of, you know, the disappointment of that and just the stress that you have to go through all for it to be for, not so, there's certainly risk in it and, and you know, there are tradeoffs, but it's one of those things where it's kind of high risk, high reward type of situation. And then from being on the show, that was when all the knockoffs started coming on onboard. So we, we saw, you know, everyone in their mom started a beard care company after that.

Orlando Rios (22:09): Yeah, absolutely. I can name a couple of different ones. I want to do it though. Not today.

Eric Bandholz (22:15): None are as good as Beardbrand. Orlando Rios (22:17): Right. So on that note, let's talk a little bit about your products. So maybe people, men, people, men, usually with beards, they don't take any type of minimal care at all. They just let it grow and, and maybe clean it up here and therewith, with a buzzer of some sort. First, tell us a little bit about some of the minimal care, somebody with a beard should do, number two, what your products, how they're formulated, and what makes them the better, the better beard product.

Eric Bandholz (22:53): I mean, if you've never used some like a utility bomb or a beard oil on your beard before, like you're just sending out for a world of change, it kind of blows my mind, uh, that you could have any kind of facial hair and not be putting in a conditioning product and your beard. It just softens it up. It smells nice. It helps it look healthy and nice, and it gives it a nice little glow or sheen to it. And our products are lightweight, so they're not going to weigh down your beard. You're not going to be like an oil slick or you feel real greasy on your face. So it's just a really nice experience. Now, you don't need it. Like you don't need to use a product like that, but it is a nicer thing to do a beard brand.

Eric Bandholz (23:36): We've, we've grown beyond the beard over the past, uh, seven years or eight years of being in business. And we started off of course, with, with care beard oil and utility bomb. Those are great conditioning products, but we came out with styling products for your hair and your beard. So we have a styling bomb at sea salt spray. Eh, you know, I could, I could talk for, I could. And I have, if you go to our YouTube video, I've talked about all of our products that that really are quite innovative. And, and we're, we're imitated very frequently with the things that we've been doing with our products. Um, but we've, we've just rolled out a shampoo and conditioner and larger packaging. So pretty much our strategy now is from a product perspective we're trying to, end scent confusion and scent confusions that, that time where you, where your, you know, your, your one deodorant from one company, and then you've got your, your different shampoo and conditioner, and then you've got your different beard oil, and then you got your different, you know, bar soap. And then you end up like smelling like this really odd combination of some fragrances.

Orlando Rios (24:41): I never thought even thought of that. Now I'm going to be self-conscious. So it should be good. What am I doing, man?

Eric Bandholz (24:49): All the people around, you have to smell ya,

Orlando Rios (24:52): What smell is he, I can't, what smell is he?

Eric Bandholz (24:57): They're confused. They're confused. So what we've done is we've got six different fragrances that pretty much from head to toe, uh, you're going to be able to find products to, to care, to condition and to style your needs. And then have those programs be able to either like they work well within a family. So if you want to pair together multiple different fragrances within our line, they work together or you can go like a unified agreeance. So like an Old Money, our bestseller in our goal line, you can get that with the exception of the shampoo and conditioner, which is coming out really soon.

Orlando Rios (25:30): That's awesome. That's really cool. I never really thought about it. That's a really great thing to think that probably most of these other brands don't even think about the scent confusion.

Eric Bandholz (25:39): Well, let me tell you, no one can, no one can touch that. Like no one is as dumb as we are to come up with a strategy. Let me tell you, like getting the fragrance to work and, you know, different products and have it smell OnPoint is a really challenging thing to do. And one fragrance may work great and an oil-based product, and then it works terrible on a water-based product or an alcohol-based product. And you have to like reformulate the fragrance to be able to. So we have all these different fragrances of the same programs that go into different formulations. And then we have, I mean, we have nine different fragrances. So, I mean, you're not going to be able to find any other company that has that kind of a diversity of fragrance that's available in such a deep portfolio. I think we got like nine different, different core products to be able to use. So, something we're really proud of, but it's also like, dude, it was hard.

Orlando Rios (26:31): For sure. So a thing that should never go without being mentioned is, is when you have a company and you've grown to where you've grown, you've got to have people working for, you got to have a great team to help supplement your ideas. And I did read on one interview, you had that you thought that sometimes the fact that you're such an idea person could get in the way of good management. So talk a little bit about being a, you know, kind of a manager in, in a way of a staff that, that is that you're trying to push a vision on and what you've learned in that time.

Eric Bandholz (27:10): Yeah. One, there's a book out there called, Rocket Fuel and Rocket Fuel is built around this concept of essentially like a two-person leadership team. You have your visionary and you have your integrator, your visionary is the person who can kind of see the future and help point the direction for where the company's going. And then the, your integrator, a person who can make it happen. Very rarely. Someone can do both. I cannot do both. I'm like purely a visionary person and I need an integrator in it. And someone who can help communicate this vision to the team and also help say no to a lot of my ideas and keep the team focused. And so we're, we're on the way to doing that, you know, eight years in, we're not entirely there, but we're still trying to get there. That's kind of the direction we're going and kind of get me out of the day-to-day.

Eric Bandholz (28:01): I, you know, further into the business, I get more and more overwhelmed with just the nuances, of certain roles. Like, you know, managing my calendar is incredibly challenging for me, just because like, to have the part of your brain that's focused on like operational and tasks and execution to, to turn that on, you have to like turn off your visionary side and, or for me in particular, because I'm not good at doing both. And that just really like slows me down and kind of gets me in an inefficient space. So the more time I can be spent in this kind of like free creative space, I feel like the more value I'm going to be able to bring to the business.

Orlando Rios (28:46): And looking back finally, the journey that you're on so far that you've been on so far, what, if anything, would you change and what, if anything, would you amplify in, in anything and the decisions you've made or, or thought process, thought processes you made in building this business?

Eric Bandholz (29:04): God, yeah, man, if I had a time machine, uh, it'd be great. A few of the mistakes were a mistake. Number one is trying to do too many things at once. So, having more focus, I would probably have more focus on the beard care line and growing that as much as possible. I'd have more focus on the market, the American market, and hitting that up harder. I would have, uh, kind of a, I want to play around with the, you know, hang ciliary products like apparel or accessories, things like that. And then, internally I would, I would have hoped to implement it EOS a little bit earlier and traction as a hiring process a little bit earlier to be able to give my team the resources. They need to know if they're being successful in their roles or not. And, kind of building that framework.

Eric Bandholz (29:56): Those are probably the big major ones. Oh. And then I would have been okay with again, a five X return on ad spend on Facebook. I'm trying to push the gas pedal a little bit harder on that. Orlando Rios: You were getting five X.

Eric Bandholz: Yeah. Yeah. Back in the day, the early days stopped, you know, because it's like five X was bad. We used to be getting like nine X or 10 X on like five X stuff. Oh, five X now is awesome. I know. That's what I'm saying, man. If only I knew that we could have just like, um, maybe like been a little more aggressive, aggressive with our paid marketing.

Orlando Rios (30:36): Alright, awesome, man. Well, if you can really quick maybe offer some final advice. If you could give some advice to fellow entrepreneurs that may be starting their own business, they may already be on their journey. What would you say to them?

Eric Bandholz (30:44): Yeah, there's, there's a couple of different messages. So if you're new, if you're on the fence, if you're like me or that wantrepreneur then a take Nike's tagline, which is "just do it", just go and do it. It doesn't matter like the action actions, what you need in the early days. No planning, no thinking, just do stuff. And then when you do it, you get that feedback and make adjustments be nimble, be quick. Now, if you're an established entrepreneur and you've got a little business right now, I want to tell you that, you know, for us in particular and for pretty much any other company, it's not always going to be up into the right. You're always going to have those down moments. You're going to be digging through it. And I want to tell you, it's the grind, it's the journey that you're working on is not the destination. So figuring out ways to enjoy the journey, to enjoy the things that you're doing and that will fundamentally shift your business and the outcomes that you're expecting.

Orlando Rios (31:41): Well, thanks to Eric so much for joining us today on the show, make sure to subscribe and share and make sure to go visit Beardbrand. They have, an awesome YouTube channel with over a million subscribers, good content there. And then you can also visit that site to get those beard products and the shampoo and conditioners coming out soon. Yeah.

Eric Bandholz (32:02): Yeah. And again, we do target dudes, but, you know, our products don't know what your genitalia is. So, you know, it's not portrayed. Like we really legitimately have some amazing products that we developed from the ground up that we believe are class-leading. So, and not only that you'll get to see how we market our products and our flows, our email flows, our packaging, things like that. So it would be a good inspiration for you for sure.

Orlando Rios (32:29): And hat nobody will ever, ever be confused with your smells. You go, there you go. So there it is. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening

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